Episode 165: Fests
In Episode 165, “Fests,” Flourish and Elizabeth use a listener letter about Yuletide—a long-running fanfic exchange for tiny fandoms—to talk about fanwork fests more broadly. While they approach fests from an observational perspective (for the record, only Flourish would like to see the return of the “Fuh-Q-Fest”), they also talk about their personal experiences writing in these events: why Elizabeth likes the structured pressure of an exchange, and how Flourish has been known to sign up for Yuletide fandoms for which they’ve never even seen the source material.
Show Notes
[00:00:00] As always, our intro music is “Awel” by stefsax, used under a CC BY 3.0 license.
[00:00:55] If you’re dying to know more about Yuletide right now, you can always look at Fanlore.
[00:08:45] The viral octopus video in question:
The fic inspired by it that was the hot thing from Yuletide 2011: “Texts From Cephalopods” by volta_arovet.
[00:09:31] Episode 145, “The Fic and the Source Material,” draws from our “Fanfiction & Source Material Mini-Survey.”
[00:19:43] The Rec Center’s readers send in Yuletide recs each year, which you can find in the archives every January since 2016. This past year’s Yuletide recs—part 1 & part 2—include Ted Lasso, The Addams Family, ~sexy dark Oklahoma!~, and RPF about the person who runs the Twitter account for Sotheran’s Rare Books & Prints.
[00:21:53] “Problems From Everyday Life” by The_Whelk is a great delight, if you are a MeFite.
[00:23:46] Our interstitial music here and throughout is “Here's where things get interesting” by Lee Rosevere, used under a CC BY 3.0 license.
[00:30:45] We may not have explained the kink meme fully. Fortunately, Fanlore will answer all your questions.
[00:33:37] Flourish is referring to their 2013 Yuletide story, “The Hellhound of the Rockefellers”...FOR WHICH THEY OWE AN ENORMOUS APOLOGY TO THEIR RECIPIENT, BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DID LEAVE A LONG AND GLOWING REVIEW! (This is Flourish: I mixed up years! I’m so sorry! Extreme fanfiction party foul!! 😭)
[00:35:55] The podcast “Witch, Please” did an episode that focused on Snape/Hermione fic (and fan studies) including a great discussion of the Marriage Law Challenge: “Book 5, Episode 4: Fan Studies with Amanda Allen.” Thanks to Maia Kobabe for bringing it to our attention!
[00:39:20] Fanlore’s list of Fuh-Q Fests reveals that this really was only ever a Harry Potter and Star Trek thing.
[00:43:25] Elizabeth’s blog post: “Black Sails + Halt and Catch Fire.”
[00:52:47] Fandom Trumps Hate was a response to Trump’s election, but it continues every year!
[01:04:48] OK, we have to do it: if you’re not in the U.S., you might not be familiar with our deeply annoying insurance shills, and it is Our Job to inform you.
Mayhem the Allstate Insurance Man is a cat:
Flo the Progressive Insurance Lady gets meta:
The Aflac Insurance Duck pairs up with Guy Fieri in an extremely annoying commercial:
The Geico Insurance Gecko does a lot of also extremely annoying crossovers with media properties, like this one with Guardians of the Galaxy:
Transcript
[Intro music]
Flourish Klink: Hi Elizabeth!
Elizabeth Minkel: Hi Flourish!
FK: And welcome to Fansplaining, the podcast by, for, and about fandom!
ELM: This is Episode #165, “Fests.”
FK: [laughs] Yes, we are indulging all of our fanfictional tendencies and embracing—I mean, I feel like fests are a very—they happen all year-round, but they’re, I don’t know. They seem to me to be like a winter thing, I don’t know. Maybe that’s not true.
ELM: I don’t think that’s true at all. [FK laughs] But it is because we received a letter about Yuletide, so we saved it for Yuletide time, which is—
FK: OK, that’s—that’s true.
ELM: —this past few weeks, you know. Reveals went up on Christmas, right? This is when Yuletide happens.
FK: That is true.
ELM: We’ll explain everything about how Yuletide works.
FK: We’ll explain all of this, because there may be people here who don’t know what “fests” means.
ELM: Right. But very quickly, not just fanfiction, but fanworks, right? We’re talking about fanwork exchanges, fanwork festivals? I guess? No one ever says that full word, but? [FK laughs] Organized events where you sign up and then you create something and then you submit it to a collection.
FK: Right. And a lot of times, there’s different ways that this works. So like, sometimes it’s just as simple as, “Here is a prompt.” And people are going to sign up to write stories or draw art, or whatever it is that match that prompt, and then they’ll all get sent in and all be revealed on a particular day, so that anybody who wants to read, you know, a lot of things about this at once can do it.
More often, I think, they’re set up as an exchange of some sort. So, like, I say, “Yes, I’m excited to write a story, and here’s what I would like to read about.” You know? Often, it’ll be within a pairing or within a fandom or something. “Here’s what I would like to read about.” And so then, someone’s matched with me, and they write a story that matches what I asked for, and then I match with somebody, and I write a story that matches what they asked for. And then at the end, hopefully we all get a story that’s like, sort of to our tastes.
ELM: Right. So, this is the kind of fest that I think happens around the winter holidays, right?
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: I would be curious—and I don’t want to get too far in the weeds yet, before we get to the Yuletide letter, but that’s the one that really feels to me like an end-of-year thing, whereas there’s other kinds of fests. There’s things around specific themes, right?
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: Everyone signs up to write a story that has a specific element, or whatever. A specific ship, et cetera, et cetera.
FK: Right.
ELM: Focusing on female characters, focusing on characters of color, all these sorts of things, right?
FK: Right. And then there’s Big Bangs and Reverse Bangs, which I know you’ve done a bunch of lately.
ELM: I don’t—I think “a bunch” might be overstating it, right. [FK laughs] But Big Bang—
FK: You’ve done ones more recently than I have, anyway.
ELM: Yeah, so Big Bangs are fests where you sign up to write a long fic—though in recent years I’ve noticed that people’s definition of “long” has, uh, grown smaller. And you’re then paired with an artist who illustrates your story. And Reverse Bangs are where the artist draws something first, and then you offer to write for—you know, there’s like, a matching process for those two. So, yeah. And that’s where some of my favorite stories of all time in every fandom I’ve been in have come out of. Big Bangs in particular, because I really like long, kind of deep stuff. “Deep” is overstating it. You know what I—[FK laughs] stories with a kind of depth of plot?
FK: Yeah yeah yeah.
ELM: I don’t necessarily mean like, deep, but you know what I mean.
FK: Yeah, not deep. But deep.
ELM: And then, you know, I also found, interestingly in my current fandom, um, I noticed a lot of my favorite oneshots, regardless of the topic, happened to be written for this one specific holiday exchange they’ve been doing every year for the past decade.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And I thought that was interesting, that that was the place that was generating a lot of the best stuff, and I—I don’t know. We can talk about this as we get into it, but I’m often curious if these fests have a kind of forcing function to inspire people to kind of put together their very best work, because there’s other people involved and the stakes are slightly higher.
FK: Oh, definitely.
ELM: But—
FK: Well, let’s read the letter, because now I feel like we’ve laid enough groundwork that anybody who had no idea what this stuff was has like, a tiny idea what it is now, right?
ELM: OK, all right. You read it, you read it.
FK: All right.
“Hi Flourish and Elizabeth, long time listener and patreon here—I love your podcast and have been re-listening to a lot of older episodes and special episodes lately; it's been a rough year and your nuanced, engaging and often also very funny conversations about all things fandom have helped me cope. So thank you.”
You’re very welcome, letter writer.
“On to my question: would you ever consider doing an episode or discussion about fic fests? (If you've done this in the past, apologies!) I’m particularly fascinated by Yuletide, because for the longest time, and during my most active fandom years, I never really understood what Yuletide was—I don't know why, but it has always seemed sort of inaccessible. Perhaps I was just not moving in Yuletide-adjacent fan spaces or did not follow people actively engaged in it… I've read and loved my fair share of holiday fic exchanges (kudos to H/D Erised!), so that can't be all there is to it… Did you ever participate in yuletide yourself? What kind of fannish people write for Yuletide? What are the most obscure stories to ever come out of Yuletide? How is Yuletide different from other fests and gift exchanges? how did it even come into existence? I really feel I've been missing out on such an important and big part of transformative fandom, and I guess I just really would love to hear you two talk about it! perhaps for a special Christmas episode? Anyway, thanks again for your wonderful podcast and all the work you put into it. I appreciate it so much.
Best, J.”
ELM: Well thanks so much, J. A lovely letter.
FK: A lovely letter.
ELM: So, let’s talk about Yuletide.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: Because that’s what the letter’s about, and then we can kind of wind our way back out to some broader discussions of fests.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: So. You have participated in Yuletide a few times.
FK: Yes. And I’ve read Yuletide every year that it’s been a thing. But I was shocked, you know, when we were preparing for this, I was like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve been participating in Yuletide since 2003.” And then I looked it up, and I was like, “I have not. I’ve been reading it that long, but I did not write stories for it back then.” [laughs]
ELM: No, I’m sorry, in fact what you said is, “For the past 20 years—”
FK: OK. All right, all right.
ELM: —and I said, “I just googled it, and it started in 2003.”
FK: So, 18 years. OK, come on. [laughter]
ELM: Jeez, such a difference between 18 and 20, Flourish.
FK: Oh my God.
ELM: I don’t know if you’ve been on Tumblr, but [FK laughs] I hear about it all the time.
FK: Ha! Anyway. [ELM laughs] Uh, Yuletide is the obscure fandoms fic exchange. So, it happens every year, and the reveal date for all the stories is on Christmas, and basically, you sign up and you list all of the fandoms that you would be willing to write for, and then you ask for a few different possible fandoms, because the deal is the only fandoms that are allowed in this fic exchange are ones that are obscure.
ELM: So, apparently, it’s less than 1,000, which I had always thought—
FK: Less than 1,000 stories.
ELM: Stories.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: I had always thought it was an actual small number, but 1,000 is kind of a—like—
FK: A thousand for all time?
ELM: I don’t know.
FK: Well anyway! So, we’re, you know—
ELM: It’s just weird to me, because like, a lot of the time with Yuletide, it’s like, people will write a story for—first of all, I’ll look at the Yuletide list, and I’ll be like, “I have never heard of 98% of the things on here,” right?
FK: Oh, yeah yeah yeah. Yup yup yup.
ELM: Which is extraordinary. And then like, but—it’ll be like, I don’t know. I always think of it as like, a place where it’ll be like, some—you know how we always talk about these things that are like, successful media properties, like successful types of media, but are like, “I wonder why no one ever wrote any fanfiction for that.”
FK: Yeah.
ELM: Like, Mad Men has like, probably fewer than 100 stories on the AO3, right?
FK: Right.
ELM: You know, like that kind of thing. And so, it’s like, to me, I always think of that sort of thing. But then, when we get our Yuletide submissions in for the Rec Center, people’s favorites, it’ll be like, some character in a commercial. Last year—
FK: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
ELM: —there were multiple stories based on a McSweeney's article, right? You know? And it’s like—
FK: Oh, yeah. Totally, totally.
ELM: How do people even think?
FK: Of that?
ELM: Of like, “Oh, I enjoyed that character in a commercial, I’d like to see more of him”?
FK: Well, I mean, it might—yeah. So like, what actually happens is, there’s nominations for the fandoms first, and then—
ELM: OK, wait. Go back, because you’ve done this.
FK: Right.
ELM: So, you nominate—
FK: First, what happens is people nominate fandoms to be allowed in Yuletide.
ELM: Have you done this before?
FK: I have never personally nominated a fandom for Yuletide. Actually—yeah, no, I don’t think I ever have.
ELM: Right. So, I have friends who do—
FK: Yeah.
ELM: —and then they’ll talk about it, like you’ll see them on Twitter in like, July—
FK: Oh, yeah yeah yeah. I’ve seen people talking about it, yeah.
ELM: And they’ll be like, “I gotta nominate this one for Yuletide,” and I’m like, “What are you talking about?”
FK: Yeah, exactly. “I gotta nominate that octopus in that viral video for Yuletide,” [ELM laughs] and you’re like, “All right.” So anyway, actually, but then, like, that’s—I think a smaller number of people do that. But then when you come as a participant, you are presented with this enormous list of fandoms—
ELM: It’s too much.
FK: —that you could possibly write for. And my strategy has always been, anything that I have either consumed already, or could conceivably consume in under one week? [ELM laughs] I say, “Sure, I’ll write for that.”
ELM: Oh, wow. Flourish.
FK: Yup. This has always been my strategy.
ELM: OK.
FK: So you just go through like, this list of like, hundreds of incredibly obscure things, and you’re like, “Sure, I could watch that commercial [laughs] in three minutes, so I’ll sign up to potentially write fic for this.”
ELM: So, this is fascinating to me.
FK: I don’t have this attitude for anything but Yuletide, to be clear.
ELM: I know! I wasn’t sure how quickly we were gonna get into this element of it, but we’re here, so [FK laughs] I want to lean into this a little bit. It makes me think a lot about the, um, the fic and the source material survey that we ran—
FK: Oh, yeah.
ELM: —last year?
FK: Yeah.
ELM: The year before? At some point in the past—during the pandemic? [FK laughs] Um, I don’t remember—I think it was last year, in 2021. You know, there’s a hardy subset of people in transformative fandom—
FK: Yeah.
ELM: —who are like, first and foremost interested in fanfiction, and they’re not interested in like, writing fanfiction in X fandom. They are interested in fanfiction, right?
FK: Right.
ELM: You know? And I feel like you bring this spirit to Yuletide—
FK: To Yuletide specifically.
ELM: Right.
FK: My other stuff, not so much. But Yuletide, yes.
ELM: But like, the idea that like, you haven’t even seen the things you’re signing up for, and you’re like, “Yeah, I could watch that and then—” It’s like a—
FK: Yup, totally.
ELM: To me, that’s like a pure writing exercise—
FK: Completely.
ELM: I mean, I’m not saying it doesn’t have affect, because obviously, you have emotions about this, but like—
FK: Correct.
ELM: —it’s not coming from a place of, like love for the source material.
FK: Yeah, for me—now, oddly enough, most of the time when I’ve been in Yuletide, because I always offer for like, certain fandoms that are more popular within Yuletide, I think every time I’ve gotten something that I actually have affect for.
ELM: Mmm, OK.
FK: But, uh, yes, it’s true that I don’t have like, this—anyway. So you sign up, and you list all of the fandoms that you possibly would write for, which can be hundreds of fandoms, and then you have to ask for…three to six? Possible fandoms that you would accept fic for, and in each of them you list like, a few characters that you would like to see in your fic.
ELM: Hold on. You can sign up to write for hundreds?
FK: Oh, yeah. You can sign up to write for literally—when I do it, I literally—
ELM: That’s so interesting.
FK: —sign up and say, “I would write for any of these,” and it is hundreds.
ELM: So it’s just to make sure that there is hopefully enough so that everyone who signs up can get some gift.
FK: Exactly. That’s why I sign up like that, is because I figure like, I don’t want to read fic for all these fandoms, but like, if there’s some poor dude [ELM laughs] who like, signed up for four of the most obscure fandoms, I want to make sure that they get what they want for Yuletide. Like, I’ll do that for them.
ELM: That’s very sweet. That’s very sweet.
FK: That’s 100% my motivation for doing this, because it’s not like I want to write—the fic only has to be 1,000 words, so like.
ELM: That’s also something that’s interesting to me, to see that there actually was that minimum on it, because I feel like, there’s a huge portion of fic on the AO3, and obviously on other fic sites, that’s so short.
FK: Yeah, but this you have to have 1,000 words. It has to be like a, you know. A short story.
ELM: I—I mean. That’s so laughably short to me.
FK: I know.
ELM: You know.
FK: I know!
ELM: You’re aware.
FK: It’s laughably short to me, too! But you know, like, in 1,000 words you could have a tiny little plot. Like, it has to be a—
ELM: Yeah. Or not even a plot. But you can get a vibe. You can get 1,000 words of vibe.
FK: Right, but you—
ELM: And you could be like, “Oh, love these characters and their vibe.”
FK: But it’s not just a vignette, though.
ELM: Yeah. Well…
FK: Well, it is sort of. But you know. Like, it’s—for fanfic.
ELM: No, I know. You could do a—there’s microfiction. There’s flash fiction. You can do plot in 1,000 words.
FK: Anyway, so you um, you have to offer to write, I think—I don’t know what it is. Like, 10—you have to offer five or 10 fandoms to write in, and then you request—
ELM: A couple.
FK: A few, yeah. And you ask for specific characters, and the only requirements, after the matching happens, is that your request includes the characters you asked for.
ELM: Not a ship, though. Just characters.
FK: No, just the characters. So I mean, obviously—
ELM: I mean, if you requested two characters…maybe not.
FK: Well, you can write notes, to your person.
ELM: And, OK—
FK: And people do, so you can say, “These are the things that I would like in it,” but they are not required to follow that.
ELM: And you can put your content, you know, content warnings and squicks and triggers and stuff in there.
FK: Yeah, you can put all that stuff in there, and like there’s—you know. Obviously, there’s—I think it’s like, bad vibes, bad etiquette to not do the thing that somebody asked you to do, but.
ELM: Oh, yeah, I mean—I think in these kinds of things too, it’s like—I don’t know. When I’ve written in exchanges—not to jump out of the Yuletide conversation, but like, I go and look at the stuff that they’ve written, sometimes, just to make sure, like—
FK: Right.
ELM: I don’t know.
FK: So there’s like, you say what characters and you say like, “Expressly do not want X, Y, Z,” so like, you know, for whatever—
ELM: Yeah, but even if they don’t specify that stuff, I think that there’s so many things that I think you should feel free to write them in your own time, but like, yeah it’s bad vibes to be like, “I’m just gonna write this person a story about rape.” You know?
FK: Exactly.
ELM: It’s like, “OK…” Like, why would you just gift that to someone without them saying they want it?
FK: Yeah, and I don’t know if this is still the vibe now, but like in the earlier years of Yuletide, there was a huge, huge deal of like, sort of slightly cyber-stalking the person you’re writing for—
ELM: OK…
FK: —and trying to get a feel of their preferences.
ELM: Yeah.
FK: So like, I clearly remember a few times, back when people were still like, actively on LiveJournal or Dreamwidth or whatever, like, going through my person’s blog and being like, “What will you like? I want to write a story that’s a little gift for you.” You know?
ELM: Yeah yeah yeah. Like, you’ve done a Secret Santa.
FK: Of course! Exactly, right? You know, but, anyway. So then, you write your story, it gets uploaded to the Archive, and there’s like, pinch hitters to fulfill any requests that people have not done at the end, so everybody has something on their reveal day. Yeah.
ELM: And so we’re looking at—I have the like, overarching collection open. It’s been on the AO3 since the AO3 began, as far as I understand. Is that true?
FK: Pretty close. Yeah, and before that it was primarily run through LiveJournal, but it had its own website.
ELM: Right, and so the AO3 collection now has 45,000-ish works across 8,500 fandoms.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: So, I mean, that ratio is pretty notable. It means there’s probably a lot of things that have just one.
FK: Oh, yeah. Definitely.
ELM: You know, it’s interesting thinking about J’s letter—I don’t think Yuletide should be overstated as this like, integral part of transformative fandom—
FK: No. [laughs] It’s beloved, but not integral.
ELM: Like, just looking at this 45,000 works out of how many millions?
FK: Yeah, definitely.
ELM: It’s not like, “Oh, you don’t get your fanfiction card until you write a Yuletide fic.”
FK: Yup.
ELM: I do think that one of the reasons it is so prominent is because astolat was one of the founders of Yuletide and one of the founders of the AO3.
FK: Yup.
ELM: And, you know, I believe wrote the script to do the matching stuff, right?
FK: She did. And, like, I think the fact that it came on to the AO3 opened it up to more people, and like, part of—some of the stuff on AO3 like, it was the first collection ever hosted on the AO3. The AO3 is kind of coded in order to permit Yuletide to keep existing. [laughs]
ELM: Funny.
FK: Like, genuinely, there were a huge number of like, technical problems with Yuletide—
ELM: Yeah.
FK: —in, I know I took part in 2008, which was the last year before it moved to the AO3, and there were like, database crashes and like, major problems, and wonky links, and all this stuff. So, you know, yeah. I mean, I do think it related—like, the technical requirements for it and the AO3 sort of dovetailed, and then they kind of got, I don’t know. Identified with each other.
ELM: I think it’s a really interesting question of like, form and function, right?
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: Because you get the sense that this functionality was created for the AO3, because it was important—this kind of activity, this kind of fannish activity was important to the people who were making the website.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And fic exchanges are very important on the AO3 in general.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: And like, a big part of fanfiction fandom now. And, you know, I think about reccing, which the AO3 never you know, created a way to accommodate that. I don’t think the bookmarking feature—
FK: No.
ELM: —even the rec—the check the rec box on the bookmarking feature—
FK: No, it’s not really—no.
ELM: That’s not reccing. In the way that you would create a rec list on LiveJournal or even on Tumblr.
FK: It’s not centralized, right? Like, there would be a way to create a situation where your profile could prominently display your recs with like, your comments on them, and they just have not prioritized that.
ELM: Right. Yeah, and just like ways to make the actual content of the rec more important than just as an indexing function.
FK: Mm-hmm. Yup.
ELM: Bookmarks—they work great as bookmarks, right?
FK: Yup.
ELM: You know? Like, though, as a reminder, if you don’t make it private, the author can see your comments.
FK: [laughs] Yup.
ELM: I just think that people need to be repeatedly reminded of this. You know, and so it’s interesting to see how big reccing was on LiveJournal, because it was so hard to find things.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: Because it was so decentralized. And how much that’s fallen by the wayside in the last 10 years, because—it’s interesting to think about these really deliberate choices they made to prioritize certain parts of fandom and not others, and how that has influenced so many people who were not in fandom in any way prior to the AO3 existing, so.
FK: Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. At the same time, I think that one of the things about who participates in Yuletide, I mean, one thing that we can say about that is that like, it kind of marches with who was likely to be involved with the AO3 early on, [laughs] you know what I mean? And what kinds of fandoms were involved. Like, I know there’s been a lot of controversy about the way that non-Western fandoms were or were not represented in Yuletide.
ELM: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
FK: And, I mean, I think that has eased somewhat in recent years, because there has been a lot more non-Western fandoms that have come onto the AO3. But there was definitely a period where it was like, “How do you even consider what is a big or small fandom?” Like, this means like, nothing. You know what I mean?
ELM: Yeah. Right.
FK: There was a period where it was like, “Well, there’s a bajillion fanfics about this anime. None of them are on AO3 or fanfiction.net—”
ELM: Sure.
FK: —and yet, so is it qualified for Yuletide? You know what I mean?
ELM: I mean, technically, sure? Yeah.
FK: I mean, it was! Right.
ELM: Because amongst the body of people who spend time on this website, it’s a small fandom, right?
FK: Right, right, but then it—
ELM: It’s hard for them to find other people who are interested in that in this space.
FK: Exactly, but then—as we all know, fandom can create controversy out of literally anything, so. [laughs]
ELM: Absolutely. Sure. Yeah, I know that The Untamed was a Yuletide fandom the year before everyone I know except for you and me watched it, which I [laughs] we’re not the only ones.
FK: Oh, yeah. Yup.
ELM: Yeah, but it’s—it’s just, I think it’s a very interesting practice. It’s just not something I connect with on a personal level. I’ve tried. So, the Rec Center began five years ago, January, it was the first week of January we started it, and I didn’t know Gav very well at the time. She like, volunteered to do—I was like tweeting—our friend Kfan [FK laughs] was like, “Someone should write a fandom newsletter.” He doesn’t talk like that. I don’t know why I said it that way. And I was like, “Oh, I’ll do it.” And then Gav was like, “I want to do it with you.” And I was like, “I don’t even know you. [FK laughs] I didn’t know you liked me, OK.” Um, and so we started to do it, and I think even that first year, Gav did Yuletide recs.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: And I was like, “I barely know what this is.” I had like, no contact with Yuletide prior to that, and I had been reading fanfiction since the ’90s, right?
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And it’s just not something that I had anything to do with.
FK: Right.
ELM: And, so every January since, we’ve started the year with Yuletide recs, and a couple of times I try to contribute—
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And I just—it just is not for me. Like, I’ll scroll through this endless list of things that I have literally never heard of only to spot things I’ve heard of and don’t care about in any way, and then I’ll occasionally find something to care about, and the fic will be well-written and fine, but not anything that I would rec, and it’s just like, “Well, I’m not desperately gonna rec it, because it’s something I actually like.” You know?
FK: Yeah, yeah.
ELM: And I just don’t think I’m cut out for it, like, spiritually. I don’t think it’s for me, you know?
FK: This does not surprise me at all about you.
ELM: Yeah, right?
FK: Whereas I enjoy it. I mean, I haven’t done it yet this year, confession, because I’ve been mostly on a train since December 25, but um. Like, I really enjoy going through and being like, “Oh, yeah, I watched that. Let’s find out what the fic for that would be like. I’ve read that, let’s see.”
ELM: This is so strange.
FK: And like, a lot of it is stuff that I click into and then immediately click out of, but every time I find five or 10 stories that I’m like, “Yeah!”
ELM: Five or 10? Oh my God!
FK: Yeah! I mean, you know, we’re different people. [laughs]
ELM: Nope.
FK: But there are—I mean, you do enjoy—you were just part of a holiday fic fest, so.
ELM: Are we now gonna talk about fests in general?
FK: I mean, I think we should talk about fests in general, because I think it’s interesting. Like, Yuletide is something that is—I do think there are people who don’t do fanfic, like if you’re on MetaFilter or something, like, you know about Yuletide because every year somebody posts a bunch of—you know what I mean? Like, there’s people who are not in fandom at all, who still read Yuletide stuff every once and a while.
ELM: Wait wait wait. Are there MetaFilter fics in Yuletide?
FK: I don’t know, but I would love to find out.
ELM: Hold on. I got the collection open. I’m gonna look up “Ask MetaFilter…” [FK laughs] You know, the raw search functionality for this kind of thing on the AO3 isn’t ideal… Nope, ah, the term “MetaFilter”—
FK: Uh huh.
ELM: —did not yield—OK but I’m looking—Oh. I hope there’s like a MetaFilter AU in here.
FK: Oh man.
ELM: And, uh, yeah. There is a—
FK: There’s a MetaFilter AU?!
ELM: There’s a Hannibal—well, I mean it’s not like a—they like—it must be about MetaFilter, right?
FK: Wait, somebody wrote a Hannibal fic set on MetaFilter?
ELM: Hold on. I’m gonna read you these tags. OK. #Alternate Universe – web forum.
FK: [gasps]
ELM: Ah, #MetaFilter, #Ask MetaFilter, #online communities, #season one, #In-Jokes, #so many in-jokes, #INTERNETS, #FOREVER!, #Parody, #Complete.
FK: Oh my God. Somebody wrote a MetaFilter fic about Hannibal?
ELM: This fic has like, 30,000 hits.
FK: Somebody wrote a Hannibal MetaFilter AU!
ELM: Ah, I’m gonna send this to you right now.
FK: I’m gonna read it right now—well, not right now. I’m gonna read it as soon as we’re done.
ELM: Read it after.
FK: I’ll read it. I read Hannibal fic! You know? This is not even outside my normal wheelhouse.
ELM: It’s called “Problems From Everyday Life” by The_Whelk, and the summary is, “What if rather than keeping everything bottled inside, the characters of TV's Hannibal worked their way through Season One using one of the web's most popular Q&A sites, Ask MetaFilter?”
FK: Oh my God.
ELM: Love. OK, well why don’t we actually take a break, because it’s probably break time. If you want, you could just very quickly read the fic.
FK: All right, break time. I’m probably not gonna [ELM laughs] speed-read the fic. I’m just envisioning like, you know, a cartoon character speed-reading. [makes noise to indicate fast reading, laughs] You know?
ELM: [laughs] OK, goodbye, I’ll see you in a second.
FK: All right.
[Interstitial music]
FK: All right, we’re back.
ELM: Yup.
FK: And that means it’s time to talk about how we make this podcast.
ELM: Right. So, not how we make it, but how we fund it.
FK: Right, well, you know.
ELM: We make it with Audacity and…Skype? Or, not Skype!
FK: Yeah, and actually—not Skype anymore! Slack video calls. [laughs]
ELM: Slack video call, we’ve found, has been the most reliable, which I find very strange, because it’s—we don’t have to pay for it.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: Thanks, Slack.
FK: But the way that we fund it is through Patreon. patreon.com/fansplaining. There are a wide variety of different levels that you can support us at, from like $1 a month up to however many dollars you want. Mostly $10, you know, is like a good tier. Anyway, each of these tiers—
ELM: You always put like, a top limit on it, and like, you’re probably crushing the dreams of the millionaire who wants to give us $100 a month.
FK: Right.
ELM: And you’re like, “Ten is really what any reasonable person would do if they had money to spare,” and they just sit there and they’re like, “What if I wanted to spend more?”
FK: OK, great. [ELM laughs] Call me, Jeff Bezos. [laughs]
ELM: He can afford more. He should give his money to his workers before—and to the government—before us. [FK makes dubious noise] He has some to spare for us, it’s true.
FK: [laughing] Thank you. All right. There are many tiers, and they all have really great gifts! Offerings! Rewards! That you can get.
ELM: OK, I’ll say what they are, because you’re just going to do more synonyms.
FK: I will. [laughs]
ELM: Right, so, at $1 a month, you get access to a special episode. You know, we should probably do—that was a few years ago that we recorded that. We should probably swap it out and do another $1 episode. Maybe?
FK: We’ll swap it out soon.
ELM: Maybe we can get Javi to come back.
FK: Oh, that’d be great.
ELM: All right, we’ll see, we’ll see. But that was with Javier Grillo-Marxuach. At $2 a month, you get that plus early access, $3 a month, you get all our special episodes. There’s several dozen. There’s more to come this year, 2022. At $5, you get a very cute enamel pin, the little fan, our logo, $10 a month, you get our Tiny Zines. Our most recent one was a collaboration with our next guest, Destination Toast.
FK: Woo-hoo!
ELM: Toast is actually coming on the podcast, as promised several months ago, it’s really happening now.
FK: Woo-hoo! [laughs]
ELM: This was on us, not on Toast. Don’t want to blame Toast for anything. And, uh, higher than that, I don’t know. There’s special stuff available for you, Jeff Bezos. [FK laughs]
FK: Anyway, if you don’t have money or don’t want to share your money with us, we totally get it. There’s lots of reasons why that might not be your thing. You can still support us by spreading the word about the podcast and also by writing in, or calling in, and giving us your thoughts, your opinions, your questions. As you can see, like, this episode came about because of somebody’s email. We really, really love hearing from you.
ELM: Flourish, this was, in fact, a Tumblr message.
FK: Great. Well, that brings us to the many ways that you can contact us. One of which is email, fansplaining@gmail.com. But also, our Tumblr ask box is open, and anon is on. We have an ask box on our website that can be anonymous. You can also give us a phone call at 1-401-526-FANS and leave us a voicemail message, which we will play on the podcast. Just don’t say your name if you want to be anonymous there. Or, you know, we’re on all your major social media as Fansplaining.
ELM: Not TikTok.
FK: No. Not TikTok.
ELM: The most major social media platform of 2021. The actual traffic shows.
FK: Uh, well, we’re not on there, and I don’t think that either of us want to become TikTokers, because it’s a lot of work.
ELM: I don’t. Actually—I think it actually beat out YouTube, also. Which is—you know, I sometimes think about, when we were at Comic-Con years ago now, and TikTok was so thirsty. Remember, they had the like—
FK: I do remember how thirsty they were.
ELM: —people flying the fricking planes overhead with the banners being like, “Do you wanna do this?”
FK: Yup. Yup.
ELM: And everyone was like, “Calm. Down.”
FK: Yup.
ELM: And apparently if you spend $1 billion—
FK: People do.
ELM: —trying to make yourself viral, you then, uh, create a self-perpetuating virality.
FK: Yeah, every once in a while, I feel like I really missed something because I heard about TikTok, yeah, like the year before that—
ELM: You didn’t miss anything.
FK: —SDCC. Well, I mean, I don’t know. You’re right, I didn’t miss anything. What was I gonna do?
ELM: Do you wanna be a TikTok star?
FK: I don’t know, maybe.
ELM: Like, first of all it’s not too late, but. I don’t think so, Flourish.
FK: Well, it’s not too late. I don’t really—I don’t really, but you know, every once in a while, I’m like, “Yeah, I knew about that. I heard about it from like, some Chinese investors [ELM laughs] back at that time.” Which is literally true. Um, they were like, “This is the next big thing.” I didn’t pay much attention.
ELM: Yeah, I guess, like, what you might have missed is maybe you could have been an investor too? I didn’t know that was your thing. Or you could have created some early TikTok houses?
FK: I could have created some early TikTok houses. [ELM laughs] I mean, I don’t know. Like, whatever, you know. We knew it was a thing. I definitely made some presentations to people being like, “TikTok is gonna be a thing,” and then it was. But it was, you know.
ELM: It was interesting—I think that maybe we would have to do a little more research, but I would be curious if anyone is researching TikTok. I don’t get the sense that the entertainment industry itself—it seems to be reaping the rewards of people’s interest in things on TikTok, but is not publishing—
FK: I have a—yes.
ELM: Do you have things to say about this?
FK: There’s a lot of reasons that that is the case, and yes, I have things to say about this. [laughs]
ELM: Well, let’s talk about that at some point. I would love to discuss it.
FK: We can think about like, what a TikTok episode would be like.
ELM: Sure.
FK: In the meantime, we should probably get back to fests.
ELM: Something I like much more than TikTok. No offense to people who enjoy that platform.
FK: I have fallen down a TikTok hole several times.
ELM: No offense to you.
FK: Thank you. I appreciate that. No offense taken. [laughs]
ELM: All right. So, there are fests in the fanworks space. I like fests.
FK: Well, OK. We’ve been talking about Yuletide a bunch.
ELM: Mm-hmm.
FK: But why don’t we talk about some other fests. Like, how is it different—I mean, obviously, like, you were just talking about the things that you did not like about Yuletide. Or not didn’t like, but that didn’t jibe with you.
ELM: Mm-hmm.
FK: But you take part in fests, and like, you do like fests when they’re within your fandom.
ELM: I do.
FK: So, let’s talk about that. And like, how that vibe goes.
ELM: Well, it depends on the fandom. Yeah, I’ve always obviously read stuff from fests. I think that it would be—you’d have to actively try not to—
FK: Oh yeah.
ELM: —in most fandoms, right?
FK: Yup.
ELM: Of a size, you know, like—
FK: Yeah.
ELM: And I’ve participated in a bunch in my current fandom and…I don’t know. There’s a few different things I like about it. I sort of like, I don’t really think that I am the kind of person who would like, go on the kink meme and be like, [FK laughs] well, probably not kink meme at all, but like, go on a—when kink meme evolved out of like, actual kink stuff and into like, just a prompting space, right?
FK: Right, right.
ELM: That kind of thing.
FK: Yeah yeah yeah.
ELM: You know what I mean, right?
FK: The kink meme is—the kink meme is a general, you know.
ELM: A metaphorical—yeah, no, as a generalized term, not just—I’m not just saying I don’t want to write someone’s specific fetish or whatever, [FK laughs] but like, just that sort of thing, where like, there are prompts swirling, or you know, people on Tumblr saying, “Prompt me and I’ll write it.” You know? This kind of like, unstructured interest in participating. That is—maybe someday that would be for me, but that’s not for me.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: Um, and I think that stems from not wanting to participate in this stuff at all for like, the first 15-plus years I was in fandom.
FK: [laughs] Right.
ELM: And so, there’s something about fests and exchanges where it is more structured—
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: Where you just kind of bite the bullet, at least the first time I signed up for one and I was like, [deep breath] “I guess I’m in it now, and now I have to do it, I’m obligated.” Right?
FK: Yeah.
ELM: You know? I said yes, and um, I have to write something for someone, and they’re gonna be devastated if I default, which obviously they wouldn’t be, but like, you know. You really start to feel like—
FK: No, but it sucks when somebody defaults. It does.
ELM: Yeah. So, like, it’s this other real person that you sort of feel accountable to, even if they are kind of a fiction—
FK: Oh, yeah.
ELM: If you’re sort of writing it for the group and not necessarily for that one person—
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: —who’s a stranger and who may never read it, ah, which I think we’ve both experienced before.
FK: Oh, yes. [laughs]
ELM: Writing things and, uh, our recipient not acknowledging them, so that’s interesting.
FK: Yup.
ELM: That is what it is.
FK: Yup, it sure is.
ELM: It’s a risk you take, but you know—and it’s fun too because I’ve really enjoyed the ones where I didn’t have to opt into any—I was just chucked an idea and then it’s like a really specific kind of challenge, because you’re like, “Mmm, God, how can I make this work? I am stuck with this thing—”
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And I think that this is pretty common, but the ones I participated in…you should try to stick, broad strokes, to what they’ve asked for.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: But you don’t have to like, do it to the letter, and thankfully I haven’t ever been sent one that’s like, super super detailed.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: Um, but I—you know, I’ve definitely modified them a fair bit from what was asked for.
FK: Right.
ELM: So yeah. I’ve really enjoyed that experience.
FK: Yeah, I think it’s really interesting—I think you’re right about this sense of somebody like, waiting for the fic, you know what I mean? [laughs] Having a different impact? I guess?
ELM: Yeah.
FK: I think that for some people that makes it more anxiety-inducing.
ELM: Sure.
FK: And for other people, that’s really inspiring.
ELM: Well, isn’t anxiety-inducing inspiring?
FK: Not for everyone.
ELM: Like, “It’s a deadline. I’m so inspired by this deadline.” [laughs]
FK: [laughs] Not for everybody! [both laugh] But then, yeah. I don’t know, there’s also—obviously there’s a lot of etiquette and emotion around everything. I mean, you were saying like, you know, somebody doesn’t even read their thing, right? Like, I was telling you about how in Yuletide 2013, I wrote what I think is probably the best fanfic I’ve ever written—
ELM: Wow.
FK: —which was—
ELM: Wow, really?
FK: —it was a 30,000-word Elementary/Sleepy Hollow crossover, [laughs] you know, like, based on a Sherlock Holmes story, and like, it was really detailed and like, I obsessed about it, and I think the comment I got from the person who I wrote it for was like, “Nice.” [both laugh] And I was like, “OK.” But you know. In the end, that was fine, because there were plenty of people who like, vibed with it and like—
ELM: Yeah.
FK: —I got lots of positivity back. But like, there’s, you know. There is like, an anxiety there because you want to make the person happy, and then you also want your gift to be good enough for them and for them to be—you know? It’s like—
ELM: Yeah.
FK: “I want you to be happy, and I feel anxious that you feel happy, but then I also feel anxious for me [laughs] that I make you feel happy.” I don’t know.
ELM: Well, I gotta say, I’m not anxious about the response of my recipients in these things, I’m sorry to tell you.
FK: But you’re not anxious about that, but you are anxious about like—you do find it inspiring—I shouldn’t say anxious, but you find it inspiring to get it done.
ELM: Yeah, and I’m kind of—even more so than the Big Bangs that I’ve been involved in, where there is a deadline, I do feel like there’s something about this—it’s not even thinking of them as an individual, but like, the fact that there is a recipient that you’re handing it to, as opposed to submitting to a collection—
FK: Right.
ELM: —makes it feel somehow like, an extra bit of pressure, like, “I gotta do this—”
FK: Right, right.
ELM: “—for a person, not for an entity.”
FK: Right, and that is interesting, because that’s like, I mean we’re talking now about exchanges, but there are also fests and things that used to be called challenges, but I feel like now would be referred to as fests, that—
ELM: I still think people use the term challenge.
FK: Do they?
ELM: Well, it depends on what we’re talking about, right? So, there’s—obviously the internet is awash in, like, what I think of as challenges, like, some of them extend beyond fandom, right? Like Inktober, or—
FK: Right, so a challenge in this context, meaning—
ELM: —uh, Flufftober, or whatever.
FK: —for instance, my personal historical favorite from many years ago, the Marriage Law Challenge, [laughs] where—
ELM: This sounds very much like you, whatever you’re about to say.
FK: Oh, oh, it was extremely influential on all people who like forced marriage [laughs] fanfic, but it was a Snape/Hermione challenge that was like—all right, your prompt is that like, the wizarding world has passed a law that’s like, a sort of eugenicist dystopian law that people have to get married based on certain qualifications, and then out of this springs your story, which doesn’t necessarily mean—if I recall, it wasn’t that you had to have people be paired with each other via the law, it was just that this had to—which, obviously, a lot of them did, right? But like—
ELM: Hang on, hang on. Did this happen more than once? Or was this a one-time thing?
FK: It was a one-time thing, but then [ELM laughs] people kept writing things that they called—like, it was a one-time event that occurred on the “When I Kissed The Teacher” [laughs] mailing list, WIKTT—
ELM: Oh, Flourish.
FK: Shout out, WIKTT, heyyo. But, uh—
ELM: This is what you were reading when you were 14, the When I Kissed the Teacher mailing list?
FK: I think I was 16, but yes.
ELM: All right.
FK: Pretty much. Uh, thanks ABBA.[both laugh] Um, anyway, so this was a one-time challenge, which had a deadline and everything, but then people kept like, writing it—
ELM: Sure.
FK: —and now there’s marriage law fics in like, every fandom, and this is where it came from.
ELM: Well, right, like, I think we talked about this briefly, uh, when we did our trapped-together episode, because you were talking about the original Canadian Shack challenge, right?
FK: Yeah yeah yeah, which is another great example of this, right? Where there was a challenge—
ELM: Mm-hmm.
FK: —and it was like, “They’re stuck together in a Canadian shack,” and then like, years later [laughs] there’s all these fics based on this prompt.
ELM: Right, so—
FK: So that’s like—yeah.
ELM: This is very specific. And I feel like a lot of this can only happen in a truly large fandom, right?
FK: Mmm.
ELM: I saw a lot of this in Harry Potter. Some of these are still going on. There’s like, H/D Career fest—
FK: Oh yeah.
ELM: —where the whole point is that they—you’ve just got to give them random jobs, [FK laughs] and you know, like—which, I mean, some of them are very job choices, you know?
FK: Right.
ELM: I mean, because there’s so many stories where, like, Harry is a cop and Draco has some random, undefined job in the Ministry of Magic, right? Oh my God, sorry, I’m talking about Harry Potter, I apologize. You started it, though, by talking about the teacher you wanted to make out with.
FK: I did, I did, I did.
ELM: Severus Snape.
FK: I did.
ELM: Yup. But I’m thinking about the more amorphous sort of challenges—not to bring up Harry Potter again but obviously we were in this fandom for a very long time, but I remember like, way back in the day, there were these—I mean, they still have them in some form, but these were a little more defined in my memory, of like, it would be like, the month of April, and there would be like, a specific phrase or image every day—
FK: Right, right.
ELM: Right? And like, I definitely still see these, but like, I felt like—they felt bigger at the time. Like, a bigger thing. Maybe it was just the people I was reading. Right?
FK: No, I think that’s true, I think that there was a period where it was like—I mean, I wonder whether some of this also had to do with like, LiveJournal communities for fic?
ELM: Yeah, yeah.
FK: Because when you have a LiveJournal community and people are posting fic, it’s all coming in this space, and so then it’s like, “OK, well…” It’s almost like you’re reading—for those people who never encountered LiveJournal, which maybe some of our listeners never did, um, the experience of reading a LiveJournal community was almost like reading a group blog, or something like that—
ELM: Mmm.
FK: —where you would have posts, and so then it made sense to say like, “It’s the beginning of April. Today’s—the prompt for April is…”
ELM: Yeah.
FK: You know, foolishness—
ELM: Right, right.
FK: And then people would post fics, and they would all be like that, right?
ELM: Yeah, exactly. So like, that’s the kind of challenge to me, in that—all these things have some commonality, in the sense of like, there’s dates, there’s deadlines—
FK: Right.
ELM: There’s, you know, there’s prompts—
FK: [whispering] Oh, man.
ELM: —coming into—yes?
FK: I just remembered a category of fest that I have not seen forever.
ELM: Tell me.
FK: The Fuh-Q Fest.
ELM: Wait, with a…spelled with a Q?
FK: F-U-H-dash-Q, the Fuh-Q Fest.
ELM: OK, this is ringing a bell, but I could not tell you for the life of me what it was.
FK: Fuh-Q Fests are fests in which you have a character, and then there’s like, a bunch of possible pairings with that character, and you write smut for whatever the character is, and like whoever you got assigned to write smut for them with.
ELM: Do people use this term—with the Q, which is the part I remember—
FK: Yeah.
ELM: —outside of the fandom that we were both in?
FK: Oh, yes.
ELM: OK.
FK: One of the earliest ones was the Spock Fuh-Q Fest—
ELM: OK.
FK: Which, um, you know, I did not even know was a thing, but apparently that was the original one, and um, there have been—let me see. There’s—Fanlore is wonderful, because they have a list. “List of Fuh-Q Fests.” OK, apparently they were only in Star Trek and Harry Potter. [both laugh] I assumed they were everywhere, but it turns out they were just in two fandoms.
ELM: [laughing] That you happened to be in.
FK: [laughing] Both of which I happened to be in. Um, yeah. But still, I think it would be great to include Fuh-Q Fests for other fandoms, that we should revive this.
ELM: No. I think the F-U-H-dash-Q is a spelling of the word “fuck” that should live in the past. [FK laughs] Uh…but OK, so these are all like, I mean there’s a lot of crossover between here and like, the kink meme world. The kind of prompting world—
FK: Oh yeah.
ELM: —on LiveJournal and earlier than LiveJournal, right? And obviously the prompting world continues. There’s tons of people prompting on all social media platforms right now.
FK: Definitely.
ELM: It’s something that can’t, by design, really happen on the AO3. Right? Like you can’t—
FK: Yeah, and on Discords, too, right? Not just on social media.
ELM: Sure.
FK: But like, anywhere that fans gather—
ELM: Right.
FK: —prompts happen. [laughs]
ELM: Right. But the interesting thing is, this is not happening on the actual places where the fic is being posted, right?
FK: Right.
ELM: So there is that kind of disconnect. I guess the difference here is this kind of like, centralized repository element of what I think of as fests, right?
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: Like the exchanges we’ve been talking about, and the ones that are more like challenges out into the world, and you can choose to participate or not—
FK: Right.
ELM: And there is a communal element because other people are doing the same, you know, list of 30 prompts or whatever, or the same general theme—
FK: Right.
ELM: You know, same semi-structure—more or less structured? But it’s not the same thing as like, “On December whatever, you have to turn in your story and you hit ‘fulfill gift,’” or whatever the wording is, you know?
FK: Yeah.
ELM: So, that element makes it feel different to me.
FK: Definitely. I mean, there’s also like, I do think there’s a big difference between things that are like, everybody does something on the same—like with the same sort of plot or theme, versus the ones that are like, we’re going to have exchanges and they’re all gonna have different ideas.
ELM: Yeah.
FK: Because the ones with a similar plot or theme, actually, to me, that’s some of the most pleasurable reading, because you see how all of these different people took this, right?
ELM: Mm-hmm.
FK: This is part of—probably it contributed to my love of forced marriage fics, the fact that I read all these marriage law fics and it was like, “How did they—What did they do?”
ELM: I think it’s ingrained in your deepest psyche, I don’t—I think that it just fed your—
FK: Porque no los dos?
ELM: Yeah, right?
FK: But anyway. Uh, yeah. Listen to my wonderful accent, there. [laughs] But, um—
ELM: No, I actually, I had a—I was gonna tell you, I didn’t tell you about this. I had a thought, because I was—OK, so do you ever think about Mulder and Scully as a forced marriage?
FK: I have read a couple of fics like that, and yes.
ELM: No, no. I mean—
FK: As a pairing in the original thing. Yeah, absolutely, because they are sort of a forced marriage.
ELM: I don’t mean like, forced marriage AUs of them, I mean the idea of—
FK: No, no, no, you’re right, you’re right, because they are paired together. Yeah.
ELM: Yeah.
FK: Yeah, that is.
ELM: Just because, I was thinking about this—
FK: You’re right. [ELM laughs] Oh my God, Elizabeth, you’re right! [ELM laughs] My psyche! It actually goes back to The X-Files.
ELM: I can’t believe I—it was because you were on the train, but I was writing this post—I was like, asked to write a blog post for this series about Black Sails on this blog, and I was really into Halt and Catch Fire. This was a few months ago.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And I was like, “I don’t know how I’m gonna write about that show, [FK laughs] because I only care about Halt and Catch Fire now.” And the editor was like, “Oh, you could write about that instead, just make it like, connected to Black Sails. Like, ‘You watch Black Sails, now watch this other show.’” And I was like, “Well, they’re very disparate, and that feels a bit self-indulgent, but like, maybe I’ll do it.” [FK laughs] And then I was like, “Fuck it, who cares, I love these two shows.” [FK laughs]
And so, I was writing about—one of the things I wrote about was like, the idea of partnership as romance, but not like, romantic partnership, which is like—
FK: Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. Yup.
ELM: You get that on Black Sails a lot.
FK: Yup.
ELM: You get these kind of muddles where like, they’re sort of—they’re allies and they’re working together, and then a couple of them are sleeping together, and then it’s like a weird triangle. You get this many times. There’s like, weird triangles, always. Right?
FK: You sure do, always.
ELM: And like, the way people’s romantic desires fuck up these like—
FK: Yeah!
ELM: —business and ideological desires—
FK: Right.
ELM: And like—et cetera, et cetera. And on Halt and Catch Fire, the most compelling—there’s four main characters, and the most compelling relationships are between the two women and the two men.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: But the two men and women, respectively, are in like, on-again-off-again romantic—I don’t want to say too much, but they are in romantic configurations.
FK: Right.
ELM: And so, it’s a similar sort of dynamic, where like, the greatest romances are between the nonsexual collaborators, basically.
FK: Definitely, definitely, and—yeah. Absolutely.
ELM: So anyway. The point is, I thought about all this, and then I thought, “Well, you know, [laughs] cop partners like, maybe that’s kind of like a forced marriage situation.” Right? Because like—
FK: It is! It totally is. Like, “I hate this newbie who I got assigned. [ELM laughs] Fuck them.” And then over time—
ELM: And then I started thinking about you.
FK: Aww.
ELM: And how that was your first fandom.
FK: Yeah! Over time, my—
ELM: And I was like, it all tracks.
FK: Yeah, it completely tracks.
ELM: Well, and you’re also into Elementary, and—
FK: Absolutely. Absolutely.
ELM: Sleepy Hollow had cop partners, right?
FK: Ah, Sleepy Hollow has what’s essentially a—yeah. Like, the odd man—you know, yeah. Abbie is stuck with this weird-ass dude from the past.
ELM: Yeah. Forced.
FK: Forced.
ELM: Forced together.
FK: Not in quite as dramatic a way as [laughs] you know—
ELM: I love it, I love it.
FK: [affects deep voice] Like, “We have been betrothed.” [ELM laughs] But, no. It’s very true, that’s very very true.
ELM: Yeah, all right. Epiphany done.
FK: Good epiphany. Really good epiphany.
ELM: Yeah, sorry I didn’t hit you with that one.
FK: No—
ELM: It is almost Epiphany.
FK: It is almost the Feast of the Epiphany. [laughs]
ELM: Gotta get in that little priest reference for you.
FK: Great, thank you. Thank you for that.
ELM: Anyway—
FK: No, but OK, so, thinking about fests, though, I am really interested in thinking about what fests are like—not just fanfic fests, but also, you know, there’s fanvid fests, there’s art. Everything in the fandom world, I feel like, across all kinds of fan creativity, there are fests. And I feel like, they’re really different than kind of anything in the non–fan world. I’m trying to think about what other, like, non-fanfic, non-fandom things are like this.
ELM: Wait, Flourish. What about the Sundance Film exchange? [FK laughs] Where you write down your favorite pairings, and then—
FK: You write down your favorite pairings—or your favorite tropes, and then—
ELM: And then Robert Redford—
FK: Robert Redford—
ELM: —does his little matching thing—
FK: —does his matching algorithm, yeah.
ELM: Then you make a movie, and then someone else makes a movie for you.
FK: Well, this is one of the hardest things like, trying to explain fests, like when—in my old career—
ELM: [laughs] To Robert Redford?
FK: —every once in a while—not to Robert Redford, although, you know, call me, Robert Redford. [laughs] Right after Jeff Bezos—or, I’ll put you on call waiting until after Jeff Bezos is done.
ELM: [laughing] What trope do you think Robert Redford wants you to write for him?
FK: Oh, gosh. I don’t know. I don’t know, but I would love to find out.
ELM: I don’t know anything about Robert Redford as an individual. I just know his face.
FK: I don’t either.
ELM: And his work.
FK: And that he likes Utah.
ELM: Great. Set it there.
FK: Skiing. [laughs] Anyway!
ELM: There’s so much potential for a Canadian Shack. A Utahan Shack.
FK: A Utahan Shack. [both laugh] Anyway, uh, no, but I had a real hard time explaining this to people in the entertainment industry, being like, “There’s no prize.” [ELM laughs] You know? “There’s no award. No one gets picked—no one gets to put laurels next to their fanfic title.” [laughs] You know?
ELM: Yeah. Right, right.
FK: Like, it’s not—you don’t write something and then submit it and then maybe get in or not.
ELM: Well, this does make me think about modern zine culture.
FK: Mmm.
ELM: And, also, also, like, I know Erised—H/D Erised, which is this very long-running—
FK: Yeah.
ELM: —big Harry/Draco thing, they do—it’s not unlimited. It’s my understanding there’s a number of slots, so.
FK: Well, sometimes there’s a number of slots, but usually they’re not picked based on like, “How good was the thing you wrote?” Right?
ELM: I dunno.
FK: Interesting, because I mean—I’ve definitely been in fests where it was like, there’s an X number of slots, but it’s just because the mods didn’t want to get unwieldy numbers of people.
ELM: Yeah, and trying to keep it even or balanced or whatever.
FK: Right.
ELM: But I definitely know for zines, I’ve seen a lot of people talking about, you know, like, really making it feel more like a, you know. Like a lit mag or whatever, right? You know?
FK: Right, so let’s talk about that, because I feel like zines are something that, you know, they existed when you were actually making paper things, and then for a while they sort of stopped existing, and now they’re back.
ELM: Well, you say that, but I’m sure people were making zines the whole time.
FK: Oh, I don’t mean they stopped stopped, but like, they just weren’t as like, central.
ELM: Right, but they were like a—a major mode of fannish content distribution, like, in the pre-internet—
FK: Right.
ELM: That was the way that people distributed fanworks, right?
FK: Yeah.
ELM: Like, that was, you know.
FK: And because that was the way you distributed fanworks, like, you could only publish so many stories in the zine—
ELM: Right.
FK: So there was naturally like, an element of, some people’s stories might not get in—
ELM: Sure.
FK: Or, like, they might not be able to publish or whatever, right?
ELM: And I don’t know how common this was. You know more about this history than I do, but I know the term “Mary Sue” was coming from the head of a zine making fun of some of the submissions they were getting that they didn’t want to run, right? You know?
FK: Right. Exactly, exactly. So like, there was this element of like, decision-making, publishing, and then that sort of was not as central for a long time, when you could just post stuff online. Right? Not to say they didn’t exist. There were certainly archives that would only have stories that they liked, or this or that or the other, but like. You know, it was just less of a thing.
ELM: Right.
FK: But now, we return to zine world, and—
ELM: Yeah.
FK: —it’s more of a thing again.
ELM: I totally get the physical space element, but I also think that some people are running them in a very selective way, from what I gather. You know, there was a—
FK: You mean now.
ELM: Yeah, yeah.
FK: Zines right now. Yeah.
ELM: There was a tweet a while back, where someone was saying—the OP had said something like, “I just think I’ll never be good enough to be in a zine,” and then some oldsters were like—I don’t know, some Gen-X people were like, “The point of zines is that everyone can make a zine! You don’t have to be good enough!”
FK: Make your own zine, buddy! Make your own!
ELM: It was like, totally people talking past each other, because it was like—no, what they’re talking about is the ones that people do kick-starters for, or—
FK: Yeah.
ELM: —run via Patreon, and actually charge money for. Are treating them very selectively, right?
FK: Right, I mean, the kind that are not just like, a zine that you made, like, down at your local copy shop—do copy shops exist, other than Kinko’s? Yeah, I guess they do. Anyway.
ELM: Yes they do, Flourish!
FK: The one by my house just closed. So I’m feeling very depressed—
ELM: No!
FK: It did.
ELM: Forever?
FK: Forever.
ELM: W-what?
FK: I know.
ELM: But that’s—
FK: I know!
ELM: That’s a good, independent copy shop.
FK: I know! [laughs] I know!
ELM: Jesus Christ.
FK: I was really upset, that’s why I was saying this.
ELM: Ugh.
FK: Anyway, but they’re not talking about the ones—obviously, anybody can go to a copy shop and make a zine, and you should. But what we’re talking about is like, super glossy, hardcover—
ELM: Yeah.
FK: You know. Books.
ELM: Right, right.
FK: That people are making with gorgeous illustrations and you know, that cost you a bunch of money.
ELM: I do think it’s a little—some of that stuff sits somewhat uneasily alongside the pure gift exchange, like, fest culture that happens on the AO3 or elsewhere.
FK: Mmm.
ELM: That’s a money thing, right? It’s because in one space, there’s a bunch of money involved, and physical material, and in another space, there’s not.
FK: Well, I mean—
ELM: It’s not the only thing, but I think—
FK: Yeah.
ELM: —that’s a pretty big influence.
FK: I definitely think it’s an influence. I mean, look. I’ll admit, I appreciate everybody’s contributions, but I have to say, you know, every once in a while, I’ve been reading a fest and been like, “Glad that I didn’t get that story. [ELM laughs] Glad that you wrote it, because I want you to be happy, but like, I would admit—” You know what I mean? Like, I’m not trying to be a jerk about this, like. But there are definitely times when I’m like, you know. I don’t know! Like, I know a lot of really good writers, and I just want to do something with people who I know are gonna write things that I’m gonna like, [laughs] you know? That I’m gonna want to read.
ELM: OK.
FK: So I think there is that element. I’m not saying that I think this is the most civically-minded, or like, positive—
ELM: Wait wait wait.
FK: —reaction for me to have—
ELM: I’m sorry.
FK: —but I bet that there’s people who have this feeling too.
ELM: Are people signing up for exchanges to receive? Because this is bonkers to me, like.
FK: Oh, no. Not just—but, you know.
ELM: You know what I mean? Like, that’s not the goal.
FK: Like, if I do receive something—
ELM: If you really want someone to—so, if you want something written for you in a way that’s like, really really written for you, like, you should do something like Fandom Trumps Hate, where you can do a charity bid on like, your favorite writer, and then tell them what to write, right? You know?
FK: Yeah, or just make best friends with Elizabeth Minkel, so that she writes you the greatest fic ever for your birthday.
ELM: Wow. Uh, we’ve never talked about that on the podcast. [FK laughs] Because I’ve never posted it.
FK: Well. That’s OK!
ELM: Because I’m still scared of that fandom, but yes, thank you very much, I wrote Flourish—
FK: You did write me the greatest fic ever! I mean, I feel like I can at least say that you write me the greatest fic ever—
ELM: Well, thank you very much!
FK: —that remains unposted, and like, that’s a great way to like, get the thing that you really wanted. [laughs]
ELM: I was just thinking about this the other day. I was thinking about—I was like, “I wonder if Flourish really liked it?” So it’s nice to hear that. [laughs]
FK: I loved it! It was so good! It was like, one of the best gifts I’ve ever received in my life.
ELM: Great. Um, I—maybe someday—[whispering] It’s for Star Wars. [FK laughs] That’s why I’m slightly scared. [at normal volume] It’s very—
FK: It’s fine, just post it.
ELM: —it’s very funny to me, because I think I mentioned on the podcast before, there’s been a few times where people—I’ve like, wound up in some chain of people tweeted into some thing, and there—people are talking about Reylo or something, and I’m like, “I don’t even like these movies, [FK laughs] I’m not in this group.” I guess we’ve had people on the podcast talking about some of this? I have nothing to do with this. I don’t care about your ship war at all. I have no feelings about Ben. [both laugh]
FK: But—but here’s the thing, Elizabeth. You say that you could not relate to my like, participating in Yuletide and just being like, “Yeah, I could write that, I could write that.” For random people. But you basically did that for me.
ELM: OK—
FK: You went against your deepest, like—
ELM: No no. No.
FK: —desires and tendencies—
ELM: The thing is—
FK: —and wrote me a fic, and it was the best.
ELM: I appreciate that. The thing is, that’s not the same.
FK: [laughs] It’s the same.
ELM: I feel like, first of all, people talk constantly about Star Wars, I’ve seen the movies, it’s not like I was like, “Oh, what’s that Star Wars? I could watch that in the next week and then develop some feelings about it.” [FK laughs] And I just—as you know, everyone has like, has a lot of vibes going on in the story, right?
FK: Yes!
ELM: I just felt like there was such rich space for vibes, you know? Like, I could never ever ever ever ever write you an actual St—FYI, it’s an AU, right?
FK: Right. You would not actually write an actual Star Wars fic.
ELM: It’s like a modern AU.
FK: But an AU…
ELM: It’s a modern AU. It’s set at the racetrack where I work. Right? Like, I could never write you a real Star Wars story.
FK: Right.
ELM: There was one point where I was trying to figure out what to name one of the bars, because I was trying to do like, jokey references.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And I wound up on fricking Wookieepedia [FK laughs] reading about like, different classes of ships, and then I was so mad with myself [FK laughs]. I was like, “This is not necessary. I don’t—OK.”
FK: But it was—
ELM: Anyway.
FK: Anyway. We’re off-topic now.
ELM: We talked for a long time about a story that no one can read except for you and me and like, three of our friends.
FK: [laughing] That’s why I love it even more.
ELM: All right. Yeah, it’s pretty exclusive.
FK: [sighs] It’s great.
ELM: Anyway. OK—why did you bring this up? Because I…oh, about—
FK: Well, because I was saying that like—you were saying you don’t sign up for fests to receive a fic.
ELM: Oh. No, I don’t.
FK: Which, I mean, you’re right. I think that’s true.
ELM: Oh, yeah, you were saying—
FK: But at the same time, I do think, you know—
ELM: —then you should just befriend someone that will write a fic for you. Yeah! I absolutely think that’s what you should do. Yeah. Like, yes. [FK laughs] Or like, if you’re friends with good writers, then incept them into your fandom, right? You know?
FK: Right, right.
ELM: That’s the way you’re gonna get what you want, is to like, if you like someone’s writing. Or like—
FK: Yeah, it does—
ELM: Offer to, you know—befriend—I mean, it’s so hard to actually do. Just befriend your favorite writer! And then say, “I’ll be your beta, [FK laughs] and why don’t you write these nine things that I like…” Like, that’s not realistic. But you could, especially if it’s a smaller fandom, and there’s not a lot of people who are super enthusiastic about it.
FK: Yeah, yeah. But then I think it is also, you know, um, I do think that’s a secret to enjoying fests. I do think that you’re right. I think that the thing is, with a fest, sometimes you write what you want, and I think that sometimes, having observed a lot of drama around fests, people get very invested in whatever they want being the thing they get.
ELM: Hmm. Interesting.
FK: And like, you gotta, you gotta disconnect from that.
ELM: Yeah.
FK: You gotta just be like, “This is a thing I’m throwing into the universe, and like, whatever I get back, maybe it’ll be great and I’ll love it, maybe it won’t be and I’ll still be nice to the person who wrote it.”
ELM: Yeah, I don’t know. I’m just—I’m truly like, not there for what I receive. Like, I think—I mean, I—
FK: Yeah yeah yeah. You like it, but that’s not why you’re taking part.
ELM: You know, there was one year where—in my fandom there’s like, an exchange, and then there’s an accompanying prompt thing. So like—
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: In the prompt side, people just put a bunch of prompts in, and then, people can just fill them if they want, right?
FK: Right.
ELM: And so, last year, there was no exchange only prompts, so I did a prompt.
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And that was hard for me, because then I actually had to opt into one, right?
FK: Right.
ELM: But it was still in the same kind of structure thing, right? You know?
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: And so that was totally fine, and I didn’t get anything in return, because I didn’t want—I didn’t put a thing up. So it’s just like the—
FK: Right.
ELM: The exchange element to me is very like, it’s an extra sort of thing. It’s more the like, kind of forcing me to solve the problem of the prompt.
FK: Right, right.
ELM: You know, like, how can I really make this world work that they’ve laid out for me? Or whatever. How can I make a world around this one sentence?
FK: Yeah.
ELM: But like, I will say that it does matter a little bit to me. I discussed this with you when I turned in my request this year. There are some things I absolutely despise.
FK: Right.
ELM: And if I received them, I would have to work so hard—
FK: Yeah yeah yeah. [laughs]
ELM: —to say even neutral things.
FK: Anything—yeah.
ELM: I’m just gonna say them out loud. I hate [laughs] —
FK: Oh my God.
ELM: —hate historical fricking—like, nothingness historical fantasy, where it just feels like—it doesn’t even feel like there’s worldbuilding, it’s just that people wanted to have castles and like, regressive gender roles around two dudes, right? I don’t under—like, I mean—you know what I mean? And like—
FK: I am enjoying your facial expressions. The people who are listening to this can’t see them, but like, you’re making—
ELM: I don’t like it!
FK: You’re making such—you’re doing so much here.
ELM: And so if I got that, I would—I don’t know what I would do. So I have to be like, I gotta create a prompt where literally, they would have to work so hard to make that work. They would have to really try. Right? Like.
FK: Yeah.
ELM: So, it does matter a little bit to me. But it’s just like, I wanna—even if the story I get in return is not like, something I would ever—not my favorite story ever, like—I definitely want to thank the person and say good things about it, you know?
FK: Yeah yeah. I mean, I feel like maybe one of the things in this is like, genuinely, it is better to give than to receive. I feel this way when it comes to fests in general. My enjoyment in fests also is—even though I’m like, like I was saying, every once in a while, I’m like, [sucks in breath through teeth] “It’s gonna be hard to find nice things to say about this fic that I got that I didn’t like at all, but…” [ELM laughs] You know, and that’s a downer or whatever, but like, that’s not—I’m not saying that because like, “Oh no, I didn’t get the thing that I wanted and I had my heart set on,” right?
ELM: Yeah.
FK: It’s just like, “This is a socially awkward situation, in which I—"
ELM: Yeah yeah.
FK: “—I need to figure out how to be nice.” But um—
ELM: Flourish, just write the word “nice.”
FK: [laughs] I mean, to that person, like, I am sorry, whatever I did that you hated. [ELM laughs] You did your best and I really do appreciate that you even wrote the word “nice.” [laughs]
ELM: Wait, you appreciate that? Come on!
FK: Look, they—they made an effort.
ELM: No, to me, that’s worse than saying nothing. No offense to that person, but like. Like, unless they—
FK: [laughs] I don’t know what they actually said. “Nice” is not a direct quote.
ELM: Unless they truly hated it, in which case I think they shouldn’t have responded at all, I think that saying like, “Thanks so much for this.” Or, “Loved this, thank you.”
FK: Yeah, that’s not—it might have just been “thank you.” You know? Or something.
ELM: OK, well that’s better then.
FK: All right, I don’t know—I didn’t look up what they actually said, it was just—anyway, whatever. No, but—but it’s better to give than receive, right? That’s the point. I mean, I guess I feel also, like, that is a major difference between fests and film festivals or any other kind of like, challenge-y, competition-y thing that happens outside of fandom, is that in those contexts, you’re doing it for recognition.
ELM: Sure.
FK: And for this, like, it’s not about recognition. It’s about genuinely being spurred to make something.
ELM: Yeah, well, I think a lot of people are doing it for some kind of recognition. Not to get like, a little laurels next to your fandom name—
FK: Wow! Maybe!
ELM: But like, people are constantly talking about how they want more comments and more kudos and blah blah blah, right?
FK: Sure.
ELM: And like, yeah. You know, the simple fact of it is that any kind of fest or exchange is a much—well, I think it’s probably a double-edged sword, but like, it could be a good place for you to get more eyeballs, because there’s like, a collection that your work is now involved in, right?
FK: Right.
ELM: So there’ll be people who read through it. That being said, you might be in there with much more popular authors, and so then you will be overshadowed or whatever. If these things are important to you, right? You know, like—
FK: Yeah. Yeah.
ELM: —as opposed to just, you know. Just tossing your new stuff out into the ether and seeing the clicks on it via search or whatever.
FK: Hmm.
ELM: So, I definitely think people are doing it for that, especially some of these really big fandoms and these very popular fests. Do people talk about it?
FK: That’s true.
ELM: I don’t know. It’s like participating in the talent show.
FK: Yeah, well. For those who it works for, in that way, like, I guess, rock on. [ELM laughs] For me, I’m gonna keep with my thing, and I like my thing, and I think you should try my way, people!
ELM: Your way of signing up for hundreds and hundreds of Yuletide options.
FK: Yeah, that way. Try it.
ELM: Well, I like my way, which is, signing up for exchanges and fests, general fests, in my fandom that I like writing in.
FK: One fandom. [laughs]
ELM: One fandom that I like writing things for.
FK: These are both legitimate ways.
ELM: Yeah! You know, like, I’ve got a bunch of ideas for fics that I want to write, and all my ideas are very weird right now. What am I gonna do if some fest comes up, and I want to sign up?
FK: Make it fit?
ELM: Yeah…that’s hard, though. You can’t really do that in an exchange.
FK: No, it is hard, it is hard. Unless it happens just, perfect kismet, you know.
ELM: If you have a giant bank of fic ideas.
FK: Oh yeah, yeah.
ELM: And you’re like, “Wow, #75 would just slot in nicely here,” but.
FK: Yup, that’s true.
ELM: Yeah, no, I mean, that’s one of the things I actually really love about it, is for the ones where these prompts come to me, and it’s just like, a totally fresh idea and a totally fresh conception of the world, right?
FK: Mm-hmm.
ELM: I don’t know. I think that’s like a—a whatever. I keep saying it’s a problem to solve, but like, I love that kind of problem to solve.
FK: Yeah, well, that’s—I mean, that’s a little bit how I feel about writing a Yuletide fic for some characters or a fandom that I had not previously thought I would write for. Um, it’s like, “Hey! There we go.” [ELM laughs] You know what I mean? “How am I gonna get invested in this, and what am I gonna say about these characters?” Like, I gotta think.
ELM: Yeah.
FK: So, I don’t know. I mean, obviously it’s different emotionally, but.
ELM: Yeah.
FK: I think that we both have good strategies of festing.
ELM: [laughs] Yeah.
FK: I don’t know where I’m going with this—there we go!
ELM: Yeah! I think so. Well, I hope that you get to read some Yuletide fic, since you like it so much.
FK: I will.
ELM: We’re gonna have recs in the Rec Center. I can tell you, already, I looked at our early submissions. The most Yuletide-y fandom that we’ve received so far is the Mayhem character from the Allstate insurance commercials. [FK laughs] You know that guy?
FK: I do! I do know that guy! And I should’ve known that that was going to be a Yuletide thing this year.
ELM: Not to—well, that guy’s been playing that character for at least 10 years.
FK: No no, I know, but I shoulda known, though.
ELM: You know what, now I gotta see…Flo, Progressive, [FK laughs] AO3. Great. I was worried.
FK: Huh?
ELM: That there wouldn’t be enough of her, but in fact—
FK: Oh.
ELM: Looks like—oh, apparently, I’ve already searched this term before. [FK laughs] That’s great for me. Uh…looks like there’s 19 fics about Flo—
FK: Nineteen.
ELM: —who, for anyone who doesn’t watch TV in the last 15 to 20—I don’t know how long she’s been doing it, but it couldn’t be that long—
FK: It’s probably only U.S. TV.
ELM: Um, yes, or who doesn’t watch television in the United States, she’s a deeply annoying character, but I’m really happy for that actress that she’s set for life.
FK: She is set—yeah, she—she sells insurance. She is deeply annoying.
ELM: All right, well I gotta tell you that Mayhem the Allstate insurance man has 77 works.
FK: Wow. Mayhem the All—yeah. He’s defeating Flo.
ELM: But—
FK: Well, all right.
ELM: But—
FK: Oh no.
ELM: The GEICO Gecko only has 14. OK, ready? Here’s the fourth one. The Aflac Duck. [FK laughs] He only—
FK: These are all, for those who do not live in the United States, [ELM laughs] these are all insurance salespeople/animals. So what’s the Aflac Duck?
ELM: I’m sorry to tell you the Aflac Duck, truly one of the great heroes of the early 2000s commercial space, only has one.
FK: Ah, you know, that tracks. He only—he just says “Aflac,” so.
ELM: Can you do it?
FK: [affecting Aflac Duck voice] Aflac! [ELM laughs] All right, and on that note—
ELM: He’s by far the superior of those four characters. Undeniable.
FK: On that extremely Yuletide-y note, Elizabeth. [ELM laughs] I think that that wraps up our episode.
ELM: Oh, man, but—oh! Jake from State Farm.
FK: No! Elizabeth, we’re not going down this—I—Elizabeth. I will talk to you later.
ELM: What if I wrote Gecko—Gordon Gecko? I feel like there’s something here. Next year for Yuletide. [laughs]
FK: You’ll have to sign up for—Dude. I challenge you to sign up for Yuletide, and only offer to write fics for insurance commercials.
ELM: [laughs] I don’t—
FK: This is your challenge.
ELM: Only for the GEICO Gecko.
FK: You may not choose to accept it. All right, I will talk to you later, Elizabeth.
ELM: OK bye, Flourish!
FK: Bye.